Posts by Tyrone van leyen

10

Fairytale Charles Taze Russel & the mircale wheat....

by Jack_Jehovah in

how can you weak insecure jw people, follow the corruptive scriptures & hoax theories from a devious occult icon like charles taze russel, a shrewd businessman who appeared eager to collect funds from the selling of the "millennial dawn" books, cheated one of them out of financial gains, and issued thousands of millennial dawn books under a female pseudonym.. a rogue profiter of 'miracle wheat', deceived & defrauded many by selling this supposedly advanced strain of wheat for $60 a bushel, far above the average cost of wheat for the day.

throughout 1912 and 1913 the eagle continued to report on this alleged fraud on russell's part.

russell sued the eagle for libel, but lost.

Tyrone van leyen

The vids nothin new, but you are. Thanks for your take on Russell, and Welcome!

230

real one --- please provide proof here

by kwintestal in

sorry to saratonin wrath for his thread being hijacked.

real one ... please provide the evidence that you said was out there on this thread here to avoid further hijacking of the other thread.. insults towards non-believers are also better suited to this thread then the other one as well.. kwin.

Tyrone van leyen

Are you saying we should take our Satanic forms as you earlier hinted at, and hurl them over the cliff, just as Jesus did with Legion, when you refer to us as swine. Maybe I'm reading too much into your original Christian intent, of "nothing but love" for us. Satan does seem to have a thing for pigs you know. Call me a swine but I like pearls!

91

Have you found Jesus since you left the wts?

by real one in

leaving the society was scary at first but i had to make myself grin and bear it.

i have renewed my relationship with christ and i am looking foward to his wonderful blessings in my future.

now that i am finally worshipping him in spirit and truth and i have the hope of going to heaven someday.

Tyrone van leyen

Okay, I'll admit it. I have Jesus Jeans, but Dna testing is out of the question! I hate needles, you know.

91

Have you found Jesus since you left the wts?

by real one in

leaving the society was scary at first but i had to make myself grin and bear it.

i have renewed my relationship with christ and i am looking foward to his wonderful blessings in my future.

now that i am finally worshipping him in spirit and truth and i have the hope of going to heaven someday.

Tyrone van leyen

How bout a missing persons bulletin? If he has been lost within the last 24 hours, there might still be a chance. What was he wearing? Any bright colours? If it's its brilliant white he should be easy to find!

38

Are We Any Better Than the Witnesses?

by Caljuher in

i have just been on this board a short time.

i have been visiting it for years, however, via the freeminds site since i left the jws in the late 1990s.. but there is so much anger and pain and hatred--especially for people who still want to believe in some kind of god or religion--on this board that it doesn't seem to be so healthy of a place.

why so much hate?

Tyrone van leyen

You don't know what your missin Calhujer. Don't take cyber space so personal, or try to put people in a box. Let it happen man. You'll find your way!

38

Drinking & Jehovah's Witnesses

by minimus in

jw
friends

you know, i knew a lot of bethelites and every one of them loved their booze.

as an elder, i would entertain alot of the cos, dos and bethelites and their wives.

it was not unusual for the wives to get loaded while they were at my house!

Tyrone van leyen

The reason it's one of the few things that's ok with the witness's, is cuz "Big Papa Joe's" personality was fueled by it. Papa Joe, took away Noel like the Grinch that stole Chistmas and every other other holiday for that matter. Don't take his friggin booze away though! Since he created the "pecking order" mentality, and the "Judge" mentality in elders, it only fitting they can at lest resonably keep up with his drinking habits to. You know what they say, Like father like son!

38

Are We Any Better Than the Witnesses?

by Caljuher in

i have just been on this board a short time.

i have been visiting it for years, however, via the freeminds site since i left the jws in the late 1990s.. but there is so much anger and pain and hatred--especially for people who still want to believe in some kind of god or religion--on this board that it doesn't seem to be so healthy of a place.

why so much hate?

Tyrone van leyen

The board is what it is. You can take from it whatever you want. Their are interesting veiwpoints heated debates( which can be fun) Humour. The board is a cross section of life and all the different types, but specifically the different types, that have their own personal story to tell and their own personal pain and misjudgments. Sometime you have to feel your way around about when dealing with other people. Such is life. Such is the board. It is that diversity that makes it great. There is also a very welcoming, caring, helpful and warm side to the board. The board consists of all the things that make us human, and we must see our own reflection in it. Always remember that bad karma that is undeserved returns to get you. Remember that you are the other person. and lastly, remember that ego distorts reality.

Your initial question was are we better any better than witnesses. I think in the sense of open mindedness, a sense of freedom to explore other avenues of veiwing a problem, and a desire to see our families free of a cult after being shunned says a lot for the kind of people here.

I must say however, keep in mind, when you say, we, "WE" are just a cross section of society. Good and bad. It can't be generalized. You have to see it for what it is in all of its diversity and seek what you like about it. Like atracts like. If you act like an inetellect you attract many different ideas. If you act like a jerk, your karma will come back to you the same way. If you are a flirt or a joker you will attact like mindedness. It's all perspective. You don't have to take anybody's insults personally. The only reason I might, at times, is because it's all being done in a public fashion, and sometimes it just sends the wrong message of being a punching bag, if you let it go.

54

Who Do You Speak To More - God Or JWD Members?

by serotonin_wraith in

if i thought there was a magnificent spiritual being who cared for me, i would pray every day, not just if i felt low and had no one else to talk to.

we don't spend time with friends only when the going gets tough.

we share the good as well as the bad.

Tyrone van leyen

I'd have to say I talk to JWD more. There's this interesting phenomemnon I noticed. When you talk on JWD you get replies. When you talk to God. No replies, none at all. I'm serious just try it and see for yourself. Pray to God, wait for a reply. You won't get one! 20 times out of 20. Try asking a question on JWD. You'll get a response 20 out 20 times. Sorry God. You lose .

46

Do you consider your time as a JW wasted time??

by karter in

many of us have devoted a lot of time and energy to the jw's at the expense of other things like education , planing for retirement , family time just to name a few.. i don't consider it all wasted time there was a lot of good i learnt however i'm doing things now as a jw i never would have.. i don't have the same time pressure and never fell guilty about taking a lot of time out for myself as one elder said to me"if we don't keep you brothers real busy in the work of the kingdom you get swallowed up by the world" .

karter.

Tyrone van leyen

Being born in it, I never had a girlfreind, never dated, never celebrated anything, never learned anything real, never had freinds in primary or highschool. Then when they kicked me, no family, then 20 years of broken relationships, dejection, guilt, condemnation. I am only truly fighting back now, but it is truly a religion that wastes the human spirit and energy, on complete nonsense.

Some things I guess i'll have to swallow and take to my grave, I haven't even talked about, lost career opportunities, and other avenue of exploration. For all the talking and explaining I've done it hasn't changed my family one iota. Lets face it, they took my life, and had it planned for me, before I was even born, and they planned the next 20 with guilt and bewilderment.

THE NEXT 20 YEARS OR WHAT"S LEFT IS MINE> If I can do even the smallest amount on this forum, in exposing, or to help others to leave, my life will not have been a total waste. I can't be consumed by it of course, I do have a life to live, but I'll bash, and bash all I want. It truly gives me satisfaction. So yes, I guess they have given me a reason to be happy. I'll bash the shit out of em. My new sport. Thanks WTS!

94

The Spread of Muslims in Europe

by serotonin_wraith in

the spread of muslims in europe.

it seems inevitable that a hundred or two hundred years from now, the majority of people in europe will be muslim.

this is based on the number of children they are having compared to non muslims, and the presumption that they will be told from a very early age they are muslim too, and taught to believe the same things as their parents.

Tyrone van leyen

I agree Christians have much to apologize for. But religion in general has a lot to apologize for, such as starting wars, keeping people ingnorant, and justifying any whim by twisting words.

If religion were removed from both sides. If it never existed, what is that drives men? What do they want? Would they still conquer and justify their actions on both sides without the old framework of thought? Of course they would. Why? Because men want power. Russia and China are for the most part Godless. They don't need one, and do not behave any better with human rights abuses and nuclear stockpiling.

This is a global world, and to dominate you need people that will fight. You need money, you need weapons, you need oil. Human nature cannot handle power in a benevolent fashion. It warps the mind.

The powers that be in the East, know very well they are serious contenders with the vast wealth that is theirs. Why then does the wealth stay mostly at the top echelon? Two reasons. Money for weapons, and lining their own pockets. Yes all societies to some extent behave this way. The poor suffer and remain ignorant.

What I have come to find, in examining the witness religion, is that if you take the religion away, all you have left is a greedy corporation made up of old farts and everyone else suffers and is poor.

Keeping this in mind, we see that religion, in this sense, is only a tool or framework for holding on to power. What scares me about theocracies in the mid East, is that in a governmental framework, there is no room for change in abhorent laws, because the laws are seen as divine.

At least the West absorbs the times, to see whether a law is relevant or not.

The west supresses information too, as any government must, and they too have an agenda. The difference is, I think that the western objective is not to take oil from the Arab people, but to protect their own interests. If the west really wanted to dominate as a superpower, they wouldn't stay in Iraq or Afghanistan, they would simply blow it peices. It would be far cheaper. Amadinajad to the horror of the entire world, has outrageously stated he wishes to wipe Israel off the map. He is also trying to develop the means of doing so, despite the international communites wishes. It doesn't get more obvious than that.

Living in a Global community, and not desiring global war, we do not behave as we might have done in the crusades, we try to negotiate, over and over to no avail. There have been countless broken treaties with Palestine and Israel. Hamas and Fatah have been killing each other for eons without the Wests help. Hezbollah, is sworn enemies with Al qaeda I beleive, Sunni against Shia in Iraq as well. They are all interested in takeovers. They beleive it is their inheritance. In Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Checnya, afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, Lebanon and on these battles rage with no end. The stakes are high. In Europe, pockets of Islam are growing so strong, that police are no longer allowed to enter. This is a slow takeover, and it is about global domination, under one form or another of Islam. Power!

When Communism failed, they tried something new. It just didn't work. It still needs improvement, but given time, it will improve because changes can be made. Nothing changes in Islam. When a veiwpoint is taken in any form of this religion it creates intense clashes. This is not just government decrees, but the word of Allah, in the mind of the beleiver. That can be good, if a peaceful veiw of Islam exists in the mind of the beleiver, but very bad, in the mindset of an evildoer, and is virtually unchangeable, as death to this mindset, is a reward. These opposing veiws not only create conflict with the west but also from within its own body of beleivers.

All governments have their failings, but in a global world, Islam must exist as a benign peace loving religion rather than a means of political governance. It must exist in the real world and work with its neighbours, showing them its valuable attributes rather than force feeding and dominating with no enlightenment. ( Witness world)

I fear for peace loving Muslims and Christians, because I beleive such an animal, can only be stopped with force, as was Nazism. It might already be too late. Fanatics can be found in any religion. The witnesses have millions of them knocking on doors telling them the world is gonna end for the last 130 years. What makes them dangerous, is the inability to change and a quest to dominate. The witnesses are simply waiting for God to kill 6 billion people and take over the planet. The Muslims arn't waiting for God. They're doing it. Not all by killing, but outbreeding, and immigration to all corners of the earth. It is so gradual, you might not even have noticed. Its when a critical mass is reached,that one must worry. Take a look at how Christians are treated in arabic countries. Need I say more.

I tried to be balanced to both sides in writing this and I'm not an expert on foreign countries or religions. I don't mind being corrected either. I do not condone Christianities actions or the evil actions of any other form of governance. I beleive that most folks just go to work live their lives and want to be left alone.

Yes, men want power. Whether it be by a corrupt government, or a religion that has been corrupted.

Frankly if I had to choose one, I'm afraid I would go with the corrupt government. Religion has left a very bad taste in my mouth and I reckon, my chances at having rights afforded to me as a secular human being, stand a greater chance of survival under the present system. The issue of power is so dominant and absolute in the Koran, that a woman rights and influence in politics is non-existant, just as it was in the bible. Just as it was in the kingdom hall to a lesser extent.

When a womans rights are trampled, this is a sign of a very flawed governance, that suits its own agendas. Human rights is a very basic thing. Our system isn't perfect by any means, but through trial and error, womans suffrage, abortion rights, abolision of slavery, cracks at the abolishment of capital punishmnet, advances for the handicapped, the Marshall Plan, and world aid, we have at least shown some concern for the human condition and value of life. We are going by the seat of our pants and change may be slow, but don't forget who we are and what has been accomplished. Without religion!

I have broken this down into reasonable peace loving Muslims that don't rule, Fanatical dominating Muslims who do rule, Corrupt western governments and even witness world for good measure. I have hit all, and let no one off the hook. My conclusion, is that religious ideologies do not belong in politics because it does not evolve into something that serves justice by trying to grasp the human condition. Rather it is considered infallible and divine. Hitler thought he was doing a good thing by killing Jews, because the bible claims that it was the Jews, who killed Jesus. 6 million deaths justified!

Communism under Stalin. 10 million of his own countrymen. Nothing personal, just business, selfishnes and ego. Keep in mind too, these were dictatorships, not democracies. There was no means of checks and balances, other than their own egos.

Corrupt western Gov. is the only thing we have even close to being humane. It is a work in progress. It, itself is evolving. It has written principals that it was founded on. Many of these principals came from the bible, but the bible was not used to govern the nations as a theocracy, but more as a realistic body living in the real world. If this leadership was not evolving its ideas, blacks would still be in slavery. This notion of slavery came from the scripture where Noah was naked and his son looked upon him in his drunken state. Noah then said "cursed be Canaan.' This is the danger of religious ideology. It leaves out the thinking part. The negotiating part, the changing part. Its time for change.

What can we do to ensure that our current system continues to evolve? We can start by realizing the threat which it faces. An animated, powerful and governing Islam. and although the world may not be ready to put it on the shelf, it must be imasculated to serve the purpose it was meant to serve. Enlightenment and a way of life that peacefully coexists, with other ways of life. Not to govern but to guide. You can't kill an idea. There are still little pockets of Nazism in Germany. However, it has lost its power and it was done with force. Communism lost its power economically and just petered out. With Islam however, you can't just make people have a new system of beleifs. It took me 20 years just to get Jehovah out of my frikkin head. That is why I fear many ignorant but innocent peolple will die before this is over. It is their tradition tied in with their national identity. They can't be brought down economically, cuz they hold all the oil. I'm afraid the world has lost its resolve and we are sinking into the abyss. Our economic ruin is just as good a takeover as any. If a beast that big, ever can be taken down or tamed, it will change the world forever. The domination of Islam doesn't have to mean death for everyone but I would venture to say at the very least a curtail in human rights.

I would say that if Muslims living here could avail themselves of knowlege through generations of freedom it might die out, but it seems integration as can be seen in Europe, is not on the agenda and never was. I don't mean to sound crass, but it is my beleif that all Muslims, even peaceful ones wish to see their religion dominate the earth. Why? cuz there politco/religious document tells them it should. And why not? Isn't that what the witness's want? " They desire their religion at some point, to dominate the entire globe. It's freakin insanity! To hell with religion. I'll take my chances with the human spirit. It will have a better chance at understanding the human condition and learning from it under a system of checks and balances.

Corruption and greed, are part of the human condition, but so is the intelligence that can rise above it, and move mankind, towards a more prosperous destiny. Hopefully, if we are side by side with Muslims in this country, we will see our own commonality and progress hand in hand towards a new understanding. It's not that I don't want it, but I fear there's about as much a chance of that happening as me becoming a Jew or a Muslim becoming a Bhuddist.

Women like Wafa sultan are very rare indeed, she is prepared to die as a secular human being and fight for womens rights. She is a brave woman and I hope she has planted seeds deeply into the minds of Muslim women that love freedom. She is a bright light in the Muslim world. She has no fear and tells it like it is. I hope her spark of hope, is an inspiration to future generations of great Muslim women. These women may in fact ,hold the key to breaking the back of Islam and bringing it out of the shadows, back to the source of enlightenment it once was to so many.

I have tried to offer hope but I must close in saying , I just don't see that happening in any significant way. It is like me saying I hope sister Thompson showed those elders. Now we will all be able to take part in the theocratic ministry school for 1 hour talks. In our fanciest and wildest of dreams! Now, imagine the witnesses as an actual government. Scary!

Tyrone Vanleyen

ps. Hope this made sense, and didn't offend anyone. I was just in a thinking mood tonight. I may read later and find errors in judgement, flaws in logic, or just downright inaccuracies. Don't beat me up. I have been writing all night and may even sleep all day before I reply. It is lenglthy, so if there is a huge rebuttal, I may deal only with key issues as I have things I must do as well.